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Post by daneaux on Apr 28, 2018 13:37:54 GMT -6
Excuse me.
I meant to say "Interesting".
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Apr 28, 2018 18:08:52 GMT -6
It isn't interesting because we can't even start the debate when his definitions are ad hoc.
How about this then, let him pick a Harris/Aslan debate, post a link, give the time code of any point he thinks Reza schools Sam, and I will comment on it. We can then proceeded to debate that point. Fair enough? Interesting? Maybe, maybe not.
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Post by okie on Apr 28, 2018 21:56:04 GMT -6
List every god and ask if I believe in it and I will tell you "no". That is not belief, it is the absence of belief. You are saying the empty set contains something, and that is not true. It contains nothing by definition. Being non-comittal has nothing to do with it. Logically, your premise makes no sense. You say that not to believe means you believe. Replace believe with another verb and see if it makes sense. Not to swim means to swim. Not to eat means to eat. Not to look means to look. Not to kill means to kill.... All those are nonsense, just like your premise. So, I don't believe in coffee. Like nonbelief in God this is not a claim. I do not need to provide evidence because this is not an affirmative belief. Non belief in coffee is not a claim of any kind, right? I don't have to justify my non belief in rainbow stew so why should I justify my disbelief in coffee? Or as Hitchens said in hod is Not Great, "our belief is not a belief." Brilliant |
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Post by okie on Apr 28, 2018 21:56:58 GMT -6
It isn't interesting because we can't even start the debate when his definitions are ad hoc. How about this then, let him pick a Harris/Aslan debate, post a link, give the time code of any point he thinks Reza schools Sam, and I will comment on it. We can then proceeded to debate that point. Fair enough? Interesting? Maybe, maybe not. My definitions are from Websters. |
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Post by okie on Apr 28, 2018 22:13:20 GMT -6
religion- a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
Moderate- In politics and religion, a moderate is an individual who is not extreme, partisan, nor radical.
My only 2 definition are from websters, so please try to restrain your whining and try to make an argument without semantics and logical fallacy.
This reminds of arguing with my 13 year old know-it-all grandson.
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Apr 29, 2018 10:09:21 GMT -6
"So, I don't believe in coffee. Like nonbelief in God this is not a claim."
Having coffee grounds put in front of you and someone explaining that this is used to make a beverage (the providing of evidence) changes the example in a way that has not occurred in the debates about supernatural deities, other than Anselm's attempt to define god into existence.
Without evidence being presented there is nothing more required of me. I can simply leave that universe of discourse without any claims. As Hitchens said, it would be trivially easy for god to convince him of his existence. I stand with Hitch. Until the evidence is provided to make the case, I reject the claim.
Lets say that someone believes ________. You don't know what that is so how can you make claims about it? It isn't defined and no evidence has been put forward in support. Using your logic, anything and everything that could possibly be imagined to put on that blank space is a religion.
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Apr 29, 2018 10:10:11 GMT -6
"My definitions are from Websters."
Truncated to mislead.
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Post by okie on Apr 29, 2018 14:38:10 GMT -6
"My definitions are from Websters." Truncated to mislead. I don't think that word means what you think it means. |
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Post by okie on Apr 29, 2018 14:42:24 GMT -6
Atheists believe there is no God. This is a conclusion atheists have arrived at when being faced with the question. It rxisted as a question at some point.
Just because they believe their belief is not a belief does not make it so.
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Apr 29, 2018 16:43:49 GMT -6
"My definitions are from Websters." Truncated to mislead. I don't think that word means what you think it means. I used it correctly. |
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Apr 29, 2018 16:52:25 GMT -6
Atheists believe there is no God. This is a conclusion atheists have arrived at when being faced with the question. It rxisted as a question at some point. Just because they believe their belief is not a belief does not make it so. I told you that, as an atheist, I do not believe in any gods. That is the definition of an atheist. That does not mean I am correct, and given good evidence, I would wash out my priors. To this point, the claim has not been demonstrated. This is the difference between an atheist and some guy sitting in Starbucks denying the existence of coffee. We could name an infinite number of things that do not exist and I do not have to make any claims about them because if I did that's all anyone would ever do. Not believing any claims of their existence is NOT a religion. I can't be bothered. |
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Post by okie on Apr 29, 2018 17:01:41 GMT -6
I don't think that word means what you think it means. I used it correctly. I used the applicable Webster's definition in it's entirety. So, if you used the term truncated correctly, you were simply wrong. |
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Apr 29, 2018 17:18:13 GMT -6
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Post by okie on Apr 29, 2018 17:49:37 GMT -6
": a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith."
This is the specific meaning of religion I was referring to. Virtually every word has polysemy. It is important to be precise.
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Apr 29, 2018 18:03:08 GMT -6
Then let us be precise. Surely the applicable part of the definition is this part:
The service and worship of God or the supernatural: commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance.
That is the definition most church goers mean when they claim to be religious.
And let's be more precise: atheism has a single criterion, disbelief, or a lack of belief, in gods. That is not a system of beliefs.
So on both the common usage of the word 'religion', and on the quaternary definition you prefer, neither would apply to an atheist of whom all you know about them is that they do not believe in gods.
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