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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Oct 16, 2020 21:55:39 GMT -6
"Every other civilized country in the world mandated and adopted wearing masks"
When you say this you make it very easy. Since you say "all" I simply need to find one counterexample. Let me think for about .00000001 of a second. Done. Sweden.
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Oct 16, 2020 21:57:20 GMT -6
"I like the fact that here in Virginia the exact opposite is true."
So disregard the national data and just rely on a subset of the data that backs you up? I don't even have to point out the fallacy here, do I?
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Oct 16, 2020 22:03:22 GMT -6
"More masks=fewer cases."
The fallacy here might be harder to find. You are drawing a conclusion without regard for all the other things that also might be contributing to the reduced cases in Virginia, and unless they are controlled for, you can't attribute any amount of efficacy with any accuracy. This is not an attempt to obfuscate the issue but to say that it is probably not as well researched at this point as it needs to be to draw those kinds of conclusions.
I bring back your point about thousands having to die before we get that data, and I accept that argument, but I will not be surprised to learn that the mask mandate might have caused just as much mischief as it curtailed in some other unintended ways. The fact that this seems to be a likely outcome to so many is the dilemma we find ourselves in.
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Post by okie on Oct 17, 2020 10:45:58 GMT -6
"Your argument was about employees being put in a position of enforcing the mandate." Yes. These are your words. I then explicated and concluded with, "The mask mandate is not enforceable because a significant portion of the population disagrees with it and the police cannot possibly police it to a high degree, therefore causing the predicament I outlined in my conclusion which is an unfair burden on employees." Last clause of the final sentence above is the same as what you said I was arguing. If you followed that much what exactly are you missing? OK, thanks for walking that back. Do more people disagree with a mask mandate than the nonsmoking mandate when it was established? You say it is not enforceable, yet it is being enforced. |
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Post by okie on Oct 17, 2020 10:48:54 GMT -6
"Every other civilized country in the world mandated and adopted wearing masks" When you say this you make it very easy. Since you say "all" I simply need to find one counterexample. Let me think for about .00000001 of a second. Done. Sweden. Granted, I misspoke. Sweden approach has been an example of failure for lack of a mask mandate. |
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Post by okie on Oct 17, 2020 10:52:06 GMT -6
CDC, WHO, AMA... or Gandhi
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Oct 18, 2020 10:23:51 GMT -6
"Do more people disagree with a mask mandate than the nonsmoking mandate when it was established?"
Probably. The bigger difference is that the science on tobacco was overwhelming and just about everyone knew a friend or family member that had died of lung cancer so even those that disagreed with the mandate couldn't refute the a scientific evidence.
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Oct 18, 2020 10:30:44 GMT -6
"yet it is being enforced"
It was enforced at the football game yesterday because there were uniformed police roaming the stands yelling at the fans to put masks on. This was not the case at the boutique I stopped by on Broad St and it is not the case in shops all across the country. These struggeling companies can't risk sales by alienating customers. And they don't have real enforcement mechanisms or authority anyway.
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Oct 18, 2020 10:31:40 GMT -6
"CDC, WHO, AMA... or Gandhi"
I recommend masks and I wear one. You are missing the point.
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Post by okie on Oct 18, 2020 14:53:48 GMT -6
"yet it is being enforced" It was enforced at the football game yesterday because there were uniformed police roaming the stands yelling at the fans to put masks on. This was not the case at the boutique I stopped by on Broad St and it is not the case in shops all across the country. These struggeling companies can't risk sales by alienating customers. And they don't have real enforcement mechanisms or authority anyway. Overwhelming science does not weigh into the minds of many Americans. They are satisfied with anecdotal evidence like, granny smoked 2 packs a day and she lived to be 105. The science is just as overwhelming today that mask mandates and social distancing slow the spread of covid as cigarettes cause cancer was to the average American in 1995. It is pretty obvious that this is not going away until it is addressed by government as the health emergency that it is. A person just died yesterday after contracting Covid for the second time. So much for herd immunity. |
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Post by okie on Oct 18, 2020 15:01:19 GMT -6
The largest retailer in America has no problem enforcing a mask mandate.
I feel for the small retailers, restaurants, and bar owners. In the current environment I would say &%$ it, I have 6 families dependent on this business and my competitors are not mandating masks. They would be so much better off if the federal government issues a nation wide public mask mandate.
It could even create some jobs for mask police issuing fines like meter maids and parking violations.
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Post by okie on Oct 18, 2020 15:02:20 GMT -6
"CDC, WHO, AMA... or Gandhi" I recommend masks and I wear one. You are missing the point. Why do you wear a mask? |
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Post by drlefty on Oct 18, 2020 15:58:56 GMT -6
If Americans believed in science we wouldnt have a god dam church on every corner.
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Oct 18, 2020 18:54:40 GMT -6
"The science is just as overwhelming today that mask mandates and social distancing slow the spread of covid as cigarettes cause cancer was to the average American in 1995."
That's the sort of anecdotal evidence you were just talking about.
"It is pretty obvious that this is not going away until it is addressed by government as the health emergency that it is."
Or we get a vaccine. Or herd immunity.
"It could even create some jobs for mask police issuing fines like meter maids and parking violations."
That is the argument I've been making. Remember when we talked about the calculus for enforcing mandates? You either try to catch a certain percentage and fine them by hiring, and giving authority to, an agent to pass out fines, or you give recommendations without a mandate and let people decide what they want to do.
"Why do you wear a mask?"
I am a nice guy.
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Post by Mahatma__Ganhdi on Oct 18, 2020 18:59:36 GMT -6
If Americans believed in science we wouldnt have a god dam church on every corner. Or, Jesus healed your Covid. hypotheses non fingo |
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